Tim Miklos on Pricing High-End Lights
My opinion is just that, mine and I speak for myself.
Unless you yourself are a maker or understand completely what goes into designing, planning, purchasing material and parts, machining, marketing, ect, there may not be factors that one can relate to in the big picture.
One aspect is coming up with something that is visually and aesthetically pleasing to a broad audience. Design flow, if you will, from head to tail is important in an appealing light that hits all the marks that strikes interest in the eye and hearts of those looking.
Let's be real, the main form factor for most flashlights over the last 50 years has been a round barrel shaped flashlight and, to add design elements to such a simple shape while making it stand apart from so many others with the same basic shape is not easy. Hence why so many share many features just displayed differently along the body/tail/head.
Enter exotic materials. To help set the light apart, many makers have chosen to use these exotic, hard to find and VERY pricey materials to hit that high end market of enthusiast and collectors.
Look at the high end watch market, boats, and cars as an example. While I will never be able to afford them, I still study, appreciate and desire many, even though it's out of my price range. I don't hold resentment or ill feelings that it's priced far outside of my ability to afford it. These designers are pushing the envelope and creating works of art that inspire and show what is possible, albeit at a price.
Machining these expensive materials also often leads to having to purchase much more expensive cutters/tooling which must also be factored into cost. Messing up a bar of brass, aluminum or copper is one thing but, it's simply not an option when paying $100+ per inch for exotic metals. More attention is spent (for me anyway) concentrating and taking my time to be certain there will be no mistakes (although can and does happen). Sometimes I have to step away as I am physically shaking from being nervous working with such expensive materials. The possibility of ruining a 400+ bar of metal is nerve wracking!
More time hand finishing is also often a requirement of these metals, whether it be etching, polishing, heat coloring, patina or any other details needed to achieve the desired result, just takes time.
I don't even want to mention what that slice of meteorite cost and the time spent machining took...
As far as using preexisting windows, drivers, PCB, emitters, optics/reflectors switches, wires... I'd say 95% of the makers don't have the understanding, available resources and capital to design and make these parts of the flashlights. It's cost prohibitive to almost anyone to think they could do what multimillion dollar companies already do and specialize in. Yeah, I'll stick to purchasing this stuff and implementing them in my lights and continue to making the metal parts. I think, it's unrealistic to expect makers to be able to supply every single little part. Just imagine the cost of the end product if that's now a requirement!
Most of the big makers do this because they have passion and true enjoyment of designing, making and innovating illumination tools. The ability to be a profitable company needs to be accounted for in order for this to work for us and for them.
Incentive drives innovation. Without it, you end up with bland products that will do the job but not provide enjoyment or pride of ownership. You also don't want profit to be the sole driving force either if there is no passion behind it. I'll always willingly pay more for a product that has a passionate designer who wants to make the best product to their abilities.
To address the CNC vs. manual statement, I have to ask if they have any experience with either or have priced either machine, the necessary tooling, cost to operate or education/practice required. In house CNC is a HUGE investment and takes knowledge to program and implement order of operations for a successful run. That machine needs to be profitable. Fortunately it allows more product to be made in a much faster time which can sometimes justify a lower cost as more product can be sold. Manual just takes a lot more time all around. Planning, set up, hand finishing all takes time. If you don't enjoy or appreciate hand made items, simply don't buy them.
Now, my own personal take on making flashlights is to enjoy what I do and push my abilities and constantly move forward. There are plenty of amazing makers who have production capabilities and can supply high demand. I've been into flashlights heavily for about 12 years now. Making a complete flashlight was always something I desired to do and have purchased the required tools and learned how to use over the years. Making gobs of money isn't my sole driving factor as I don't hold the same outlook on money as many do. My goal is to never get sick of doing what I do. To enjoy the process of design, thinking of new creative ways to showcase illumination tools and implement design elements creatively that interest me. The friends and community interaction aspect is a HUGE part of this process as feedback and suggestions can help guide direction.
When you make a one off design and have many hours invested in taking an idea and turning it into reality, it can be hard to put a price on it. That's where I think auctions can help. Starting price is often far below what I feel it would sell for had a solid price be put on it but, it would at least allow me to recoup what I have invested. A successful auction helps me understand the direction I'm going and whether or not a certain design has appeal. SUS are done when I feel more certain that a solid price point can be made.
With that said, I think there's items we all want and can either justify or want and can't afford. Hell, I want a house but live in a 13 foot camper cause the current housing market is insane and can't afford it. I want a bigger shop but, work from a cramped garage I rent for the same reason. It's simply a reality. I guess if one desires something enough, keep working towards that goal.
Unless you yourself are a maker or understand completely what goes into designing, planning, purchasing material and parts, machining, marketing, ect, there may not be factors that one can relate to in the big picture.
One aspect is coming up with something that is visually and aesthetically pleasing to a broad audience. Design flow, if you will, from head to tail is important in an appealing light that hits all the marks that strikes interest in the eye and hearts of those looking.
Let's be real, the main form factor for most flashlights over the last 50 years has been a round barrel shaped flashlight and, to add design elements to such a simple shape while making it stand apart from so many others with the same basic shape is not easy. Hence why so many share many features just displayed differently along the body/tail/head.
Enter exotic materials. To help set the light apart, many makers have chosen to use these exotic, hard to find and VERY pricey materials to hit that high end market of enthusiast and collectors.
Look at the high end watch market, boats, and cars as an example. While I will never be able to afford them, I still study, appreciate and desire many, even though it's out of my price range. I don't hold resentment or ill feelings that it's priced far outside of my ability to afford it. These designers are pushing the envelope and creating works of art that inspire and show what is possible, albeit at a price.
Machining these expensive materials also often leads to having to purchase much more expensive cutters/tooling which must also be factored into cost. Messing up a bar of brass, aluminum or copper is one thing but, it's simply not an option when paying $100+ per inch for exotic metals. More attention is spent (for me anyway) concentrating and taking my time to be certain there will be no mistakes (although can and does happen). Sometimes I have to step away as I am physically shaking from being nervous working with such expensive materials. The possibility of ruining a 400+ bar of metal is nerve wracking!
More time hand finishing is also often a requirement of these metals, whether it be etching, polishing, heat coloring, patina or any other details needed to achieve the desired result, just takes time.
I don't even want to mention what that slice of meteorite cost and the time spent machining took...
As far as using preexisting windows, drivers, PCB, emitters, optics/reflectors switches, wires... I'd say 95% of the makers don't have the understanding, available resources and capital to design and make these parts of the flashlights. It's cost prohibitive to almost anyone to think they could do what multimillion dollar companies already do and specialize in. Yeah, I'll stick to purchasing this stuff and implementing them in my lights and continue to making the metal parts. I think, it's unrealistic to expect makers to be able to supply every single little part. Just imagine the cost of the end product if that's now a requirement!
Most of the big makers do this because they have passion and true enjoyment of designing, making and innovating illumination tools. The ability to be a profitable company needs to be accounted for in order for this to work for us and for them.
Incentive drives innovation. Without it, you end up with bland products that will do the job but not provide enjoyment or pride of ownership. You also don't want profit to be the sole driving force either if there is no passion behind it. I'll always willingly pay more for a product that has a passionate designer who wants to make the best product to their abilities.
To address the CNC vs. manual statement, I have to ask if they have any experience with either or have priced either machine, the necessary tooling, cost to operate or education/practice required. In house CNC is a HUGE investment and takes knowledge to program and implement order of operations for a successful run. That machine needs to be profitable. Fortunately it allows more product to be made in a much faster time which can sometimes justify a lower cost as more product can be sold. Manual just takes a lot more time all around. Planning, set up, hand finishing all takes time. If you don't enjoy or appreciate hand made items, simply don't buy them.
Now, my own personal take on making flashlights is to enjoy what I do and push my abilities and constantly move forward. There are plenty of amazing makers who have production capabilities and can supply high demand. I've been into flashlights heavily for about 12 years now. Making a complete flashlight was always something I desired to do and have purchased the required tools and learned how to use over the years. Making gobs of money isn't my sole driving factor as I don't hold the same outlook on money as many do. My goal is to never get sick of doing what I do. To enjoy the process of design, thinking of new creative ways to showcase illumination tools and implement design elements creatively that interest me. The friends and community interaction aspect is a HUGE part of this process as feedback and suggestions can help guide direction.
When you make a one off design and have many hours invested in taking an idea and turning it into reality, it can be hard to put a price on it. That's where I think auctions can help. Starting price is often far below what I feel it would sell for had a solid price be put on it but, it would at least allow me to recoup what I have invested. A successful auction helps me understand the direction I'm going and whether or not a certain design has appeal. SUS are done when I feel more certain that a solid price point can be made.
With that said, I think there's items we all want and can either justify or want and can't afford. Hell, I want a house but live in a 13 foot camper cause the current housing market is insane and can't afford it. I want a bigger shop but, work from a cramped garage I rent for the same reason. It's simply a reality. I guess if one desires something enough, keep working towards that goal.
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